Imlive Question

[spider]

Smart Models keep a track and contact with their regulars customers, and take them off the site...You are the one that puts in the most effort... If the Corporate Moron thieves want to steal your hard earned money, it can only last for so long...Many customers do not like to hear the Models don't receive their %..
Each time the fine you take one member off their site.

[Annabellz]

[tben]

[hotbabee]

Oh this voyeuroom.com is just disgusting, because I don't think girls get money from it, and I don't think that country blocking is working here.

About sites that cover chargebacks, I'm not sure if there is any. I don't think that even CamContacts covers chargebacks. There is no cb there but not because members don't care about the cheap prices, since not everyone is under 1 buck. What I know is that camcontacts checks you and your credit card when you sign up , whether it's stolen or not, in order to avoid that real owners asks for the money back form their bank in case of lost cc. ImLive doesn't care, doesn't check if your cc is yours or not.
Second, the refunds, when a member asks for his money from the site due to dissatisfaction. Camcontacts examines the case if the demand is right or not, if the host didn't give what she promised. If there is no reason for refund, they won't give it, while imlive gives refund to every member who wants to get their money back, even if they aksed a nonadult to do anal etc, if they weren't happy for any reason they get the money back.

Some european sites withhold 10% of your money for later cbs and refunds, and they just give it after 6 months, like xlovecams.com

[Hony]

I disagree that ImLive, or any webcam site, fails to check fully that a credit card is stolen etc before use. Every online business, and particularly adult ones, does everything possible to avoid chargebacks.

A chargeback is *not* neutral to the website, it is a big problem for them because the credit card processors keep a track of the % of chargebacks done, and as the percentage goes higher so the *fees* the processor charges will get higher. And if the % is too high they will just refuse to do business with you.

Therefore it is in the interest of the site to keep thee % of charge backs as low as possible; which means detecting fraud or stolen cards is high priority for them.

Paradoxically this also encourages them to easily give refunds for an unhappy customer though. Because if the customer complains, regardless of a valid or not complaint, then if the site just does a refund (in credits) that's the end of the story. But if the site resists or refuses (again for valid or not valid reasons) then the customer may do a charge back, and the credit card company *will* do it regardless of whether the complaint is valid.

Then the site is getting another charge back against their record which as I said before they need to avoid.

I've read before that CamContacts simply eats the chargebacks as cost of doing business, I don't know if this is true or not but obviously it is one possible way of doing business. It would make you even more anxious to scrub out those fraud cards though!

There is no getting around the fact that in this business there is massive fraud. Not just individual guys trying to get shows for free, but organised gangs trying to make money with things like affiliate fraud or fake hosts to launder money from stolen cards and so on.

It isn't a problem that is going to go away soon.

[missangie]

I ditched all the us sites long ago, i do only the dutch sites and my own shows on msn
i had cashbacks on Iml and cams, never on CC by the way, but still I make the best cash on the dutch sites in my own language..and no more cashbacks

[just4fun]

I agree 100% with you Hotbabee ImLive DOE'S NOT CARE ABOOUT THEIR MODELS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MAKING MONEY OFF THEM NO MATTER HOW UNFAIR IT CAN BE Hony answer this question please. How can Imlive do a charge back that is one year old and have it deducted from a models recent payperiod and have it shoew up on him/her earnings.? If imlive is trying to keep a low percentage of chrge backs, then why are there charge backs everday? I cam on another cam site for almost a year now and never had a chargeback this site cares about their models and take care of the charge backs not one dime is taken from the models earnings!!!!! Imlive should be responsible for the charge backs not the models! The bottom line the charge backs should come out of Imlive's pockets not the models since Imlive takes 70% from the models earnings that 70% should take care of the charge backs since the models there get such a crappuy cut already Imlive can afford to pay for the chargebacks. they need to keep their hands of of the models earnings after all it's the models that make the money for them but it's so sad that the models get paid peanuts i should know i use to cam on there but not no more can't work on a site that rips models off!

[PWilde]

What is a chargeback?
Normally a chargeback occurs, when the paying member feels like he did not receive the services/goods he paid for and couldn't settle the issue with the merchant. In these cases the paying Member contacts their bank, fills out a form, provides proof and asks the bank to reverse the transaction by force. If the complaint was found valid, the bank indeed takes back the money with force and the merchant has to pay an additional fee (they get basically penalized). If the Merchant is able to defend their point of view (provide proof for the validity of the purchase) the dispute dropped and nothing happens.

In case of adult services this is a bit more complicated.
When a Member buys credits/tokens/etc online on an adult website it is called a "card absent environment". This means the credit-card physically was not present during the purchase and signature was not provided to confirm the will to buy (because it is enough to provide a name and a creditcard number with cv code if somebody wants to buy a credit). Therefore it is considered to be a High risk transaction. To further complicate it, there is no way for the Merchant (website owner) to prove that the goods were delivered as the subject of the purchase was an "online service", so the transaction will be categorized in the highest risk factor possible.
As that said, the bank will not request any kind of proof from the Member, it is enough from him to say that either his credit-card information was stolen, or he was scammed. The bank will ask no more, they will just take back the money from the merchant. The most ridiculous part is that the Member can ask for Chargeback for charges dating back for 6 months (if there was a 4 years old chargeback for a Model, that is not true, either the Model told you BS or the site told the Model BS).

So what do the sites do to protect their Models against chargebacks?

When they say they do everything in their effort to protect you against chargeback, they usually do mean it (remember they get penalized for it too, it usually varies from $5 to $25/transaction besides that they have to pay back all the money).

In most cases fishy transactions that get past their security filters get refunded before it could be charged back (it takes a credit-card charge to finalize on the Members statement 3 days, if the charge is refunded within these 3 days, it is like it never happened), even if the money was spent.
The next step if there is a dispute, they usually credit the Member when they hear the magic word from a complaining member (If you do not give me back my credits, I'll report you to my bank). They fear nothing more than their precious chargeback rate going up (the higher their CB ratio the more penalty they have to pay).
But no site can manage 100% fraud and asshole prevention. So when a chargeback slips in it is up to them how they decide regarding the money you got from that transaction.
If they are strict and follow Visa's/MasterCards guide line (the state of the credit-card and everything else related to the transaction has to be reversed to the state before the charge occurred), they have the right to deduct it from your earnings, too.
This is indeed mean, usually only the sites with long known name will do it, with solid Model source. Other sites investigate if the Model as any relation to the chargeback (ie: the model referred the Member, or they seem to know eachother personally or any other suspicious activity). If the Model is partially to blame, they will deduct the money from you, if not, you never know that a chargeback has occurred.

[just4fun]

[PWilde]

Pwilde, it sounds like you work as ImLive staff or you done your homework, But i totally disagree with you stating that imlive has the right to deduct from the models earnings to help pay for the chargebacks! Imlive takes 70% of the models earnings and leave's them with a measely 30% cut and they take out the chargebacks from the models earnings on top of that! Sorry but that's B/S The only way a model should be responsible for a charge back if the customer was not happy with her performance but to go and sock models day in and day out with charge backs because of fraud should not be the Models responsibility unless she owns her own camming business. meaning she takes care of her own cc billing and absorbs the charge backs. It's bad enough that imlive only pays their models 30% imlives 70% take should be plenty to pay for the chargebacks, I cam on another cam site for almost a year and had not one charge back where as the first few onths when i was working as a modes on imlive i had several chargebacks , imlive claims that they do their best to keep the chargeback percentage low where you hear that models are getting chrge backs left and right even from customers that they don't recognise as buying a show so explain how a charge back from someone that never bought a show from the model appears as a charge back and is deducted from her/his earnings! Talk about ripping their models off. The bottom line here is imlive does the cc billing not the models so imlive should absorb the chargebacks that are fraud and quit dipping into the models earnings to cover chargebacks and use their 70% take for chargebacks, i have done some reading too and found that a chargeback that is over 90 days is a cause for suspicion .[/quote]

I've just done my homework. You can disagree with everything I have wrote, but unfortunately that won't change the facts. I'm not supporting ImLive nor I'm against it, I just tried to explain a few things about the scary CBs.
In adult entertainment services Members can chargeback for the past 6 months, believe me.

[LatinStudio]

If you disagree with ChargeBack policy in ImLive you can also NOT work in any site Online, because all sites have same policy.

All sites would deduct ChargeBacks from Models (LiveJasmin, Cams, Streamate, Webcams, etc)

Is really not fair with Models or Studios, but its also not Fair for sites to pay for Money they dont earn.

The really Bullshit is on the Payment Processors. ChargeBacks have nothing to do with sites.

[just4fun]

Latin, I understand about other online sites that make the models help pay for the chargebacks but it's not fair when that site pays them a crappy cut like 30% and they take the rest! I stopped camming on ImLive a while ago because all the chargebacks iv'e seen not only me but the other models there.How can imlive do a charge back on a model thats over a year ago! and how can imlive do a charge back on a models from a customer that never purchsed a show with her/him and why is it that imlive has charge backs every single day and they claim that they have the lowest percentage of chrgebacks! i been camming on another site since May of last year and i have never gotten any charge backs at all. this site pays the models a decent percentage plus the models get to keep all the tips too not like imlive where they take 70% from the models and even on the tips they get where as this site i am working on lets you keep the whole tip because it's the models doing the shows for customers not the staff ! It;s just plain not fair to the models that absorb the chargebacks, i can see if you are a independent cam model that has their own exclusive cam site where they have their own ccbilling then yes i can see that the model has to honor all those chrge backs but when a site pays a model such a low percentage cut and they get the rest i think they should absorb the chrgebacks not the models these sites that pay such a low percentage to the models are getting rich off these poor models that bust their butts to make their rent, tuition, mortgages, medical bills etc..... and count on thier earnings to cover their expenses,and then have a huge chunk of their earnings taking out of their pay because all the charge backs thats where it's not fair !There are sites that have where if there is a charge back they give credits to that customer on a show with a different model that way the site does'nt lose out and neither does a model i can also see if a model is in a show with a customer and they promised to do what the custom asked with in reason and they did'nt meet their requests then yes then the model should have what ever time the customer has puchased with them taken from their earnings but when it come's to fraud, stolen credits cards etc.... the model should not be responsible for that the site they work on should be , after all the site processes payment not the model.

[LatinStudio]

Again i must tell you thats the policy of every site online.

Sites do not want to have Chargebacks, they earn nothing with that.

But from our own experience even as Webmasters from own WebCam sites, there can be in a small site per month up to 10.000 USD on chargebacks and such looses can not be afforded only from the site pocket.

Those who are really to blame on this are Payment processors who care less and accept every transaction.

[just4fun]

[AdorableAudrey]