Customers - which sites works best for you?

[Camillei]

Hey guys,

I've been reading many posts here about different sites and stuff. I was wondering if I could ask the 'customer' part of this audience a simple question.
On which current sites would you be most willing to spend time and money on?
I dont wnat the prices to be a factor here. I'm curious about your view on which site works best for you, as well as the models you visit. Video quality and speed, chat interface, audio options, site interface in general?
Of course there are many sites, but we all know that there are 10-15 sites which are frequently mentioned here and I would like to cut it down to those.
Hope to get feedback and comments.
Have a good one!
Cam.[/color]

[jim]

[quote="Camillei"][b][color=olive]Hey guys,

...

On which current sites would you be most willing to spend time and money on?
...

Cam.[/color][/color][/b][/quote]

Hi Camillei,

here's some thoughts I wrote down a little while ago on what I think the perfect camsite would be - outside of dreamland where all girls would just do it for the fun of it -

I want a chatsite that is broadband, has sound, is accessible via all browsers, doesn't realy on obscure Java applications (that is, uses windows media, or at least a Flash wrapper, but I definitely prefer Windows Media for the possible DirectX overlay, that is fullscreen image without sucking up 90% of the processor's power for calculating the java video, as in the case of the Amsterdam live full screen option), that offers free non-nude chat and would give the model the opportunity to manage the atmosphere in her chatroom up by awarding "free peek tokens" - that is, nice guys could be awarded a peek into a private chate of hers. It's zero marginal cost, so that seems like a good way to keep bollocks-talk out of the chat room. In my opinion, a lot of free chats would be much more interesting to all of us if girls had that possibility.

I don't want the sites to block URLs in the chatroom, that's a stupid policy from a customer's point of view. And I want the girls to be paid a decent amount for their time so they aren't trying to push guys all the time. Basically, moving from acquisition-marketing to relationship-marketing. Any textbook will explain the advantages thereof.

I want the sites to use tested means of payment (remember, there are 17million ibill addresses floating around in the net), and I want cheaper rates per minute, particlarly if the girls in question aren't getting a decent share of the money - even if they are making a decent living because the cost of living in their country is low.

I want transparency about the amount the girls and the site are making, and I don't want ridiculous prices for privates. $6 or like per minute equals $360 an hour, that's probably more than many high class escorts earn in that time. Try charging that much for an hour of lapdancing. And this is video chat, aka masturbation 2.0, in most cases.

That's just plain insane princing in my book. I don't think that the customer demographcis will be that different from the average male population, so I think such a skimming price strategy is not optimal for anyone, particularly given the fact that regular porn is essentially free on the web.

Chatting adds value on the relationship side of the arousal business - but since charging for non-nude chat is not really possible (except direct sex does that, apparently quite successfully) and the demand price elasticity for a particular girl will hardly be as low as it is for addictive stuffs - I think sites aren't sufficiently using less pricy "gang chats" to draw people in.

Imagine how many people would watch a nude chat for $0.10 or even $0.20 a minute when they are only getting non-nude for free these days... It's broadening up narrowcasting...

Just some (rather unstructured) thoughts. But I think there's a lot of optimization to be done in this business, and most of it will occur when some competitor will enter the market deciding to be only market maker for the real attraction, the chat host.

In some sense, this is like the music industry's dilemma when investin in new talents. Except that we're talking about a market with potentially limitless talent and almost zero marginal costs.

This business has a lot of maturing to do...

[annspets4]

the only sites I m on now r webcamlive and privatecamz. They r ok altho each has it's negatives. As for price being too high..cam girls have alot of expenses guys have no idea of! We do not make an hourly wage,have no benefits,have no guarantee of making anything per minute in free chat til a customer feels like gracing us with a show..give 1/2 our $ to cam sites,while the rate per minute may b $2-$3 a minute depending on waht features u want ,more being fro phone and cam to cam besides basic cam chat..most guys stay on a few minutes and then I don't get another show sometimes the rest of the day or maybe I do . I certainly never see $120-180 an hour!! get a grip and a clue here! the camsites r the ones like the producers in the porn industry, making the real money here!

I have to pay for my clothing,shoes,high speed internet connection,cams,web site,new pc's to run software,printer..to name but a few of my expenses! After I pay all that I make very little. I m lucky I m on disability and get medical,some food $, and disability $ and just do this p/t as well as modeling. I'd starve if I depended on some of the cheap rude men on here! We also get penalized for charge backs due to fraud and if a guy feels like asking for his $ back even when he got a show,as I had this happen too! fun huh?! Cam company,customer,billing company take no risk at all but place all the burden on the camgirl who is lured to biz by the quick buck just like the stripper or the porn star but soon the illusion of being rich which drives her may very well b the force taht destroys her! Ask those who get in industry and spend alot of their on drugs to do waht they do,not saying I m on them or need to do them as I do nothing I m ashamed of but then that is why I don't make the big bucks!! as men like graphic sex acts on cam,dirty shows etc. as they r freaky and very visual in nature. I do solo soft core and only so much I can do let's face it!

thnks for letting me vent! whew!!


-Ann (artzstuf) on yahoo

http://artzstuf.biz/

[jim]

Hey Ann,

[Cams2Chat]

I am by no means crying poor but sites have costs as well. I own www.asiancammodels.com and others. We pay studios 50%, Affiliates 20% and processing varies between 10% and 15%....so thats 80/85% paid out before we start on our costs.

Affiliates we pay 20% but the total doesnt hit that so to use that we advertise on the Hun, worldsex, persian Kitty and others ......wired a bunch of $ out to cover that yesterday.

i used to run studios and I have no intention of ever paying studios below 50% but run multiple servers, 24/7 customer support and at the moment have a midweek madness bonus of 10% extra credits on mid week buys so actually paying studios 50% +10% bonus equals 55% at the moment.

We do big numbers so the 15%/20% more than covers my expenses but am I getting rich?......not yet .....but before you think site owners grab 50% and have no overheads......have a look at all the sites dead. They didnt fail because they made a lot of money.

I am launching 2 new sites on Firecracker in the next 3 weeks...... more general than Asian. Check the price of Firecracker, a multiple server set up and then $30,000 advertising budget first 3 months before a sale is made .......I will be $100,000 in the hole before I start to see a return.

There is a good reason why the web has more dead than live chat sites...... traffic and promotion is the cost few understand.

[jim]

Hi Cams2Chat,

thanks for your comment! Obviously, there's a cost of doing business, and how could I ever deny that. My points above are simply what Cammillei asked for, thoughts on what would work best as a chat site from the customer's point of view, well, my point view, actually.

I still stand by what I said about the pricing being insane and not optimized in most cases. I won't turn this into a bschool discussion, as I presume there's not enough data to arrive at any kind of conclusion. So, first off, thanks for providing at least some insight into the cost shares of the value chain, although my supposition is that the figures will vary widely from site to site.

But let's go back to basics for the moment - let's consider the product. I'd say that live web chat is a product with two dominant propositions: virtual company (chat) and "masturbation 2.0" (nudity, cam2cam). Both are, obvisouly, related, often the first one is actually more important to the client it seems, but usually only the second is the revenue driver as chat is, under most circumstances free of charge. The revenue driving part of the product has to cover the all the investment made in the free part, thus leading to overconsumption of the former, underconsumption of the latter. That's all I tried to point out by saying that the pricing is not optimized at all.

Secondly, there's the competition problem: nudity is essentially free on the web. And if I add up the minute prices for a 10 minute private show at, say, livecamnetwork.com or privatefeeds.com (sites that offer the broadband experience that helps making chat masturbation 2.0), I might just as well have myself three lapdances next weekend... of course, sometimes people don't want to wait that long

Obviously, the continuing existence of this product clearly demonstrates that demand is there. On the other hand, you're mentioning the dead sites and attribute their failure to bad management. I suppose you're right. But that's only the other side of the same coin: This seems to be a market with a profit structre that is largely based on "offshoring", ie the cost / revenue differential that is natural in an industry where a large part of the service is provided in low-cost countries while the service is consumed in high cost countries. Even if the amount transferred represents a similar purchasing power, the absolute amounts will differ enormously. To put it differently, the difference between the nominal prices for a haircut in NYC and one in the Phillipines (to use your example) is the profit engine of this industry.

Without this price differential, precisely because of the costs you're indicating, prices would have to be even higher, thus leading to a necessary higher per minute price, thereby probably forgetting about the competition from free porn and tangible dancers down town.

Obviously, given the qualification structure involved in chat hosting, it seems unlikely that a salary inflation like the one happening in the Indian IT industry will happen anytime soon in this industry.

Still, for the better or worse, chathosts in the industrialised world will have a hard time competing with their counterparts offshore. Their superior command of English (or German or French) is a clear asset, but only for the marketing part of the conversation, less so the revenue driving element.

Again, just some thoughts.

[Cams2Chat]

Hi Jim

I wont comment negatively about others sites but......$5/$6 a minute seems beyond my comprehension. My own site chathosts can set between $1 and $5 a minute ....66 on now and all solos $1 and $2 a minute or somewhere in between. Couples have some at $3 a minute.

When I chat....yes I do but not on my own site....I like Secretfriends. Large part of that is value for money and at $6 a minute my mind would be on the clock so avoid sites with that sort of pricing. However, US based models and others want that pricing and I guess there is a market at both pricing levels.

I could build a site and charge $0.20 a minute but where would I get models? How would I promote so how would I get traffic? There has to be a balance and I think pricing I am doing balances both....but I doubt you will see many US based models at rates my site charges.

[kevsh]

In terms of pricing, keep in mind some sites (like PrivateFeeds) offer broadband video in free chat - even with bandwidth prices still dropping, this can get fairly pricey. Also, studios aren't necessarily cheap to operate, even in eastern EU countries. Consider some have pretty fancy props and need to be in a relatively central location.

As well, there is more and more competition which means performers from the major cam centres (like Romania, Czech, etc.) have more options - likely the "good" ones will opt for the studios that pay the best -- and they can pay the best if they have high traffic and high chat rates.

But back to the original question about the best cam sites. Of course, this depends entirely on what's important to you. The girls? The video quality? The prices? Features? High-traffic versus smaller sites? Although I chat very little for someone "in" the industry, but I have tested just about every major site - and many more. If I was going to stick to one as a customer my top choices would be:

- CamContacts (price, many self-employed performers = typically friendlier and more "willing", many beauties .. and some are available on other sites, but less expensive here)
- Flirt4Free (expensive but great video and gorgeous ladies - just be sure to get the VIP package)
- PrivateFeeds (again expensive but mostly great hosts and top video quality)
- LiveJasmin (probably, overall, the most beautiful hosts and some are *very* good performers)
- Spread4U (like CamContacts, you can find a lot of performers here that are on other sites, but cheaper here for private/nude chat rates)
- DirectSex (Some of the girls here are very personable (friendly) and though you may not get the "hardcore" action, the eye candy and ability to actually chat fairly cheap is a big plus)

There are a bunch of others, and many very good smaller sites when you want a more intimate group/free chat experience.